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Does any one no if the U.N is destroyed one hour from coming out of the abyss or after it is given teeth? plus the copenhagen agreement looks interesting. thx.
The UN is destroyed at the battle of Armageddon, which will be a world wide situation; in which the world’s governments and the un will view Jehovah’s people as easy prey.
Teeth- this means the nations will give the UN whatever “support” it is needed to carry out Jehovah’s thought.
Thank you JWN.
Hey, Brother Mark, this reminds me of the first time I commented on a brain tweet on this site! :) It was the one regarding Revelation 17:17. Were you around then? I don’t remember you from back then. :) Anyway, it was fun, and I remember discussing the difference between Rev. 17:12 and Rev. 17:17. The former scripture points out that the UN has already received the support and authority of the nations, whereas Rev. 17:17 mentions that, when Babylon the Great is ravaged, the UN sanctions this destruction and joins the nations in the rampage; therefore, the UN is given teeth (to eat the fleshly parts of BABS) or strengthened, because the nations give not just their support or power and authority to the beast but also their “kingdom!” Isn’t that awesome?!! JWN gave a lovely answer in this regard. (I guess it’s still on here, if we were to scroll back the pages.) Anyway, I hope you are well and that things are going good for you, Brother. Take care.
Revelation 17:12-14 states:”And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. These have one thouht, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.”
The Revelation book on page 255, p12,13 notes: verse 12: “The ten horns depict all the political powers that presently hold sway on the world scene and that support the image of the wild beast. Very few of the countries that now exist were known in John’s day. And those that were, such as Egypt and Persia(Iran), today have an entirely different political setup. Hence, in the first century, the ‘ten horns had not yet received a kingdom.’ But now in the Lord’s day, they have “a kingdom,” or political authority. With the collapse of the great colonial empires, particularly since the second world war, many new nations have been born. These, as well as the longer-established powers, must rule with the wild beast for a short period–just “one hour”– before Jehovah brings an end to all worldly political authority at Armageddon.”
verse 13: “Today, nationalism is one of the strongest forces motivating these ten horns. They have “one thought” in that they want to preserve their national sovereignty rather than accept God’s Kingdom. This was their pupose in subscribing to the League of Nations and the United Nations organization in the first place–to preserve world peace and thus safeguard their own existence. Such an attitude ensures that the horns will oppose the Lamb, the “Lord of lords and King of kings,” because Jehovah has purposed that his Kingdom under Jesus Christ will shorly replace all these kingdoms.–Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew 24:30;25:31-33,46.”
So “one hour” is the time alloted the “wild beast.” As the Revelation book explains, the “one hour” is a short period of time. Then it will go off into total destruction at Armageddon. It’s being “given teeth” has nothing to do with its length of existence. All things are on Jehovah’s timetable, not mans. We are told to “keep awake” but we are not given the day nor the hour, as even Jesus said neither he or the angels new, only Jehovah. (Matthew 24:36,42)
What are your thoughts, regarding the question you asked, please share.
Daily Text
Thursday, November 12, 2009
The wisdom from above is . . . peaceable.—Jas. 3:17
Divine wisdom requires that we be peaceable. This involves our avoiding aggressiveness, a belligerent attitude, or actions that would disrupt peace. James expands on this point when he says: “The fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.” (Jas. 3:18) Notice the expression “making peace.” In the congregation, are we known as peacemakers or as peacebreakers? Do we frequently have differences or disagreements with others, being easily offended or offending others? Do we insist that others accept us as we are, or do we humbly work to eliminate personality traits that others rightly find offensive? Are we known to go out of our way to promote peace, being quick to forgive and putting errors behind us? Honest self-examination can help us to see if we need to improve in displaying divine wisdom in this regard. w08 3/15 4:17, 18
Hi Everyone we are living in the last days of the last days remember what Jesus said? “Take Courage I Have Conquered The World” and “I Am With You Until The Conclusion Of The System Of Things”
In 2 weeks time the United Nations are going to decide who will be the President of the United Nations makes me think of the 8th King its all so very exciting whats going on in this world soon The Great Tribulation will start.
Thank you J W N for you website your much needed in these last days agape love to you and your family, ;-)
And agape love to all my Brothers and Sisters ;-)
In the words of the Apostle John…..
Yes; I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” Revelation 22:20
hi as you can see i have just changed the name thingy, thanks, by the way do i get of the hook for being a berk by saying i am a natural blonde?! lol
I didn’t understand a single word you just said…
are you blonde too?
sorry just realised i did not explain what i put!? der!! yes well i mean that with help i have gone to the bit where you make the comments and changed how my name looks when i leave a comment instead of sister sara cook, hope that clears it up! sorry if i confused you! me a bit thick!
I DID get that part, but just ignore me, I was prob. the only one that didn’t know…love the way you speak by the way.
Daily Text
Wednesday, November 11, 2009
The truly wise woman has built up her house, but the foolish one tears it down with her own hands.—Prov. 14:1
Husband and wife need to be open with each other and realize that a lack of tenderness in intimate relations can lead to problems. (Phil. 2:3, 4; compare Matthew 7:12.) If differences exist, the Christian can usually improve matters by good conduct, kindness, and cooperation. (1 Pet. 3:1, 2) Love for Jehovah and for one’s mate, combined with a yielding spirit, will help in this aspect of marriage. In other aspects too, the kind husband will treat his wife with respect. For example, he will take her feelings into account, even in small matters. One husband of 47 years admits: “I am still learning in this regard.” Christian wives are admonished to have deep respect for their husbands. (Eph. 5:33) Speaking negatively about their husbands, highlighting their faults in front of others, hardly shows respect. w08 3/15 2:14, 15
can i just say, jwn, i hope you are proud of yourself, i have just seen the video, you are precious and i am now sobbing!! seriously though, thank you for all the encouragement, without you this would not be possible! may jehovah bless your hard work! on a seperate note, can i be listed as sara now please as i think it may look a bit daft being sister sara cook, like blah blah blah! he he, thank you! warm christian love to you, sara
Can’t you guys put what name you want?
Give Sister Sara some help please.
hi again Sara,
I asked that a few weeks ago to change my name.
When you comment next, click on change, by your name, and just shorten it down.
By the way I have two dogs and a cat.
sian
A letter to my dear friends who may be weary, and loaded down.
SANDRA C says (with tears in her eyes, and a burning heart):
See, Brother, this is WHY we need you … you are such an encouragement to us!!! Thank you so much! What a touching and beautiful comment!
It is my pleasure. It is such a joy just to be around such like minded one, who truly love Jehovah.
Mark Mark…I needed to hear those words.I appreciate and sense the love you have.Not many can put it out there as you did. Like you said, we really dont have long to go if we just hang on to Him!
I love that song; Life Without End,at Last.Any amount of time in this system is too
long. Karen yes singing in unison all over the world at the same time” and maybe the women and children and men change verses—when songs of children feel the air la la la la mmmmm too beautiful to imagine. Just a little while longer…
I am just happy, that Jehovah is blessing the hard efforts of JWN, and allowing this site to be a source of refreshment and an interchange of encouragemnet among us. I am realizing just how precious our entire brotherhood is.
Our wait, will be over sooner than we think.
It makes me think of Moses and the Israelites, after they crossed the Red Sea. They witnessed their deliverance by the hand of Jehovah. What a mental picture that is. They broke out in song, praising Jehovah for delivering them.
We too, will have a similar experience, yet on an even grander scale. We will break out in song, giving thanks to our awesome, God. We have so much to look forward to, Sandra…as Mark reminded us, let’s keep running the race that is set before us. :)
I long to sing “Life Without End, At Last,” and “We Thankyou, Jehovah” in the new world with the world-wide family. Won’t that be an awesome experience?! Thankyou Mark, for reminding us of the race we are all in. It’s not about who is ahead of whom, or if one is really fast, because there may be some who start out slow, but they are persistant, they don’t let there slowness discourage them, but, w/prayers and supplications to Jehovah, they keep going. The important thing is to RUN! If someone starts to fall, reach out your hand, help them back up. It doesn’t matter where we are in the race, but we must be determined to FINISH the race. You have reminded all of us of our goal, Mark and I thankyou. Your sister in faith, Karen :)
This song reflects perfectly what is across the “finish line.” Maybe you can share it, JWN. It is the video, “Sing To Jehovah–See Yourself When All is New.”
The correct song is contained in this video, if you watch.
Sorry about that, I thank you so much, JWN.
Does anyone have dreams of themselves being in the New World? lately I’ve been having a lot of them. It makes it so Real that it’s almost disapointing to wake up.
I’ll be glad when it isn’t a dream.
hi kelly, yeah i do too, have dreams of paradise, that is why i love assemblies and conventions as it is like paradise, well spiritually, however just recently i have had a few dreams where i am being beat up, in the tribulation, from that i was happy to wake up!!! i often think that right now this world seems to be going on for ages, but looking back from paradise it will have only been a short time in comparison! nice eh!
hi brother mark m, thank you for that very encouraging passage, you are indeed quite right in directing attention to song 15, it is a gorgeous song that reminds us that this system will not last forever but life in paradise with our worldwide brotherhood, that will!! very positive point, one i will remember, thank you! christian love sara
Did you guys know, there’s an explanation (I believe in the insight book) that opens the possibility that when Enoch was taken, he was taken when he was having a vision (possibily of the new world?) so just imagine, when he gets ressurected maybe he’ll be thinking he’s still having the vision… he’s up for a great shock lol
Yes, I believe you are right Tiago. Great shock will turn into Great surprise and happiness! Keep reading and dig for those gems. I will share one with you later, but now I have to get ready for my meeting. Take care
Daily Text
Tuesday, November 10, 2009
The overseer should therefore be . . . reasonable [yielding, ftn.]—1 Tim 3:2, 3
One of the qualifications for those appointed to serve as overseers involves being willing to yield. This is especially vital when appointed men meet to consider congregation matters. Before a decision is reached, each one present is free to express himself clearly, though it is not required that every elder make some comment. During a discussion, an individual’s view may change as he hears others direct attention to Scriptural principles that apply. Rather than resisting and holding to a personal view, a mature elder yields. At the outset, there may have been differing views, but prayerful reflection promotes oneness among modest and yielding elders. (1 Cor. 1:10; Eph. 4:1-3) In all his activity, a Christian elder should strive to uphold theocratic order, which will help him to show consideration and gentleness to others. w08 3/15 1:15, 16
I am Bogdan from Romania, please publish the name of Jehovah’s Witness in romanian language in your list on YouTube Channel: “Martorii lui Iehova”.
Greetings from romanian brothers !
Thank you !
Hello my dear sister, I am ok. I was enjoying the comments from you, sandra 123, robin, and others; who were providing excellent indepth heartfelt comments. It was like being at a meeting, and listening in person.
That’s sweet, Brother Mark! Thanks. :)
Daily Text
Monday, November 9, 2009
They encouraged them.—Acts 16:40.
We look out for the interests of others by encouraging them. (Rom. 1:11, 12) Paul’s coworker Silas was a source of encouragement. After the circumcision issue was decided about 49 C.E., the governing body in Jerusalem sent out emissaries to carry a letter to believers elsewhere. Silas, Judas, Barnabas, and Paul took it to Antioch. There Silas and Judas “encouraged the brothers with many a discourse and strengthened them.” (Acts 15:32) Later, Paul and Silas were jailed at Philippi, but as the result of an earthquake, it was possible for them to give a witness and see the jailer and his household become believers. Before leaving that city, Silas and Paul encouraged the brothers. Like Paul and Silas, seek to encourage others by your comments, talks, and zealous field service. And when you have a “word of encouragement,” by all means, “tell it.”—Acts 13:15. w08 2/15 2:20, 21
JWN did i write something wrong please correct me if i did or sandra, sandra 123 or Robin. I do research but there thing i dont really understand I pray for understanding but ther thing i wont fully understand im not pushing my assignment on noone i know i need to do my own research of coarse. I just like to be around ones that been in the truth longer than me they encourage me i want to be like that someday I love my Brother and Sister very much and i would only say thing nice to these ones positive encouragement that was my whole point . I enjoy learning and listening to other comments because it encourages me to go back and see what i missed in my research or overlooked. I enjoy learning from other we all do the Bible is all about the expirances of others.
No, your fine sweety,
I think I replied to a reply of one of your comments, but you’re fine. Keep up the good work.
Hi Becky, Jehovah sees your heart….he sees your earnest desire to serve him. I commend you Becky, you are an encouragement to all of us here, also, please know that. Jehovah is such a loving God, when our desire is to fully please him, he helps us every step of the way. Continue on your journey of serving the true God, Jehovah, Becky. In such things, Jehovah is well pleased. Your sister in faith, Karen :)
Nice to meet you, Becky! I can see that you have a strong desire to be a true Christian (Romans 8:5). We can all accomplish this with Jehovah’s help. :) Rest assured that Jehovah sees everything that you do for him, and he will love you for it! Keep on walking by spirit, Becky! (Gal. 5:16, 17)
Robin, excellent observance of the term “hour”
So how long will”an hour” be? A literal hour is 60 minutes. How many times, have we been doing something,that we enjoy and the “time flys” by, so to speak? Like being in the field service, the time goes by so quickly. Or attending a assembly, we anticipate the assembly, prepare for it, the day comes, and before we know it, it is over…..we wish the assembly could last longer.
Now how many times, have we been in a situation, where the time dragged on, every scond see to move extra slow. It is because the situation was either boring, uncomfortable, or not interesting to us. So time dragged on.
So too the Great Tribulation will be, it will be an exciting time for Jehovah true worshippers, but a dreadful time for otherss. The time will either fly by, or drag on….depending on “our” circumstance.
Brother Mark, it is so good to see you back and commenting! I missed you, dear brother! Please don’t be a stranger :)
I will not be a stranger any more.
I am so glad to hear this, Brother Mark! I have found you to be the most encouraging brother on here! … well, that is, of course, with the exception of JWN!!! :)
Both of you brothers are certainly helping us all to ‘Keep on the Watch’! Thank you so much.
We are living in very exciting times spiritualy speaking its going o kick off big time thank you Jehovah and Jesus and the 144,000 Revelation 24: love you all agape ;-)
Let me first start by saying, “How truly encouraging it is to see the various depth of knowledge among us on this site”. The intense personal studying and research being done here reminds me of the careful study of th scrpitures that the Breaons (sp) did, making just so.
Will there be “Genuine Annointed” on the earth during the tribulation? Well for Matthew 25:40 to have any hard hitting impact, it seems there will be. Matt. 25:40″ And in reply the king will say to them, “Truly I say to YOU, to the extent that YOU did it to one of the least of these my brothers, YOU did it to me.
The brother represent the annointed during our time- Read 2 CO 5:20, Heb 2:11
The Great Tribulation will only start after the destruction of babylon the great. If we read Matthew 24:29-31. (Please read)Notice the words “AND THEN”- this means it will be a rapid progression of events.
In fact Jesus said, unless those days were cut short, NO FLESH would survive.
So the tribulation WILL NOT be some long drawned out thing lasting years, it may be months or even weeks, we do not not know how long it will be, but when we see the complete destruction of babylon the great, rest assured that things will happen very rapidly. There will be no time, to suddenly get spiriual, or get some things handled by the elders, the spiritual person you are when the Great Tribulation starts, is what you will be through out it.
As regards the marriage of the Lamb and his bride (144,000) this will only happen after the destruction of babylon the great, Read Revelation, it grand climax chp 38 pars 15-19. Pay close attention to par 17 “the sealing of the 144,000.
There is so much more I want to write, but time escapes for the moment, I hope this helps some in any way.
You know Mark, I have often thought about what you said:
“So the tribulation WILL NOT be some long drawned out thing lasting years, it may be months or even weeks”.
It calls to mind scriptures such as
(Revelation 18:10)Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’
(Revelation 18:17)because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’. . .
(Revelation 18:19)Too bad, too bad—the great city, in which all those having boats at sea became rich by reason of her costliness, because in one hour she has been devastated!’
(Revelation 17:12) . . . “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings (one hour) with the wild beast. . .(looks like they get the authority only long enough to do the job.)
(Revelation 18:21) 21 And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a (swift pitch) will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. . .
I have often thought (and this is just a thought) that the GT could begin and end within 6 months and here is the reason why:
Major events happen in the fall. (Jerusalem was destroyed in the fall of 607 bce) Also if you recall once Babylon the Great is destroyed there has to be enough time for the traveling merchants to mourn her demise.
(Revelation 18:19) So lets say it happens in “a” fall of “a” year, that would include ALL major holidays (Halloween, Thanksgiving, X-mas,New Years, Valentines Day) all the “money making” season’s that the traveling merchants have come to rely on. Once you turn the corner after New Years…..my guess is they are crying like babies. Six months from the fall lands us in the lovely spring time and what events from the past can we associate with that time of year? Jehovah delivered the Israelites from Egypt and oh yes….The destruction of Jerusalem in the spring of 70 CE. So yes, I believe that the GT too will be mere months and not years in length. There are parallels and patterns everywhere in the bible, we only have to look for them.
When the worlds tribulation begins, ours ends.
Daily Text
Sunday, November 8, 2009
Let endurance have its work complete.—Jas. 1:4.
Although we petition Jehovah for help, our adversities may not be removed immediately. They may even continue for some time. If that is the case, what will help us to endure? Remember that when we continue to serve Jehovah faithfully despite difficulties, we prove our love for him. (Acts 14:22) Keep in mind Satan’s accusation concerning Job: “Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it? You have always protected him and his family and everything he owns. You bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country. But now suppose you take away everything he has—he will curse you to your face!” (Job 1:9-11, Today’s English Version) By means of his integrity, Job proved that accusation to be a base lie. By our enduring under distressing circumstances, we too have an opportunity to prove Satan a liar. In turn, our endurance strengthens our hope and confidence. w08 3/15 3:14
I think we all are here to encourage ones through scriptures,knowledge and expierance. I know me personally am encourage by the differant level of growth we all share . The main goal I have is simaluar to you all to grow in progress in the truth. It require alot out of us to humble ourselves and digest the information the FDS are gladly sharing with us and its a privelge to be able to hear comment at the hall and also here about the changes lately. It good to see ones loyally submitting themselves to these changes. WE all are eager to find out how prophecy will play out I thank Jehovah so much because he doesnt keep us in the dark on these things. In his due time it all will made known through the Faithful Slave Class which they will provide to us at the right time and we in turn will share with others just like we are doing now sharning willing with other what we learned. Sometimes I read the Publicashing not fully understanding alot of it mostly Daniel and Revelation its takes alot of research which i do but still there going to be things i wont fully understand so its Good to have ones on this site discussing these topics and many more.
Thanks for sharing that Becky, I appreciate your encouragement. :)
Yes, I agree with Karen and I too appreciate your comment…
keep on asking, keep on knocking :)
Becky,
Interesting comment. My understanding of the FDS is that they are of the anointed. Now, how many anointed serve at Bethel or on the governing body? How many anointed are there worldwide? How many partake at our local Halls every year? I personally know 3 in my congregation. We have an understanding that the FDS provides the enlightenment to the governing body, who in-turn, approve the written material for us other sheep to read and digest from the watchtower, awake and the plethora of other books. I have never seen or heard from any in my congregation, that have ever been invited to write material for any of these aids. Why is that? You also mentioned research in your comment. Yes it is so true. We all have the individual responsibility to research everything that the FDS says.
The Faithful and Discreet Slave is a representative group of Anointed ones entrusted with the responsibility of feeding Christs domestics, which are the entire group of Anointed. They are fed by the Faithful Slave, and we as the “Other Sheep” are spectators, and are able to also partake of these spiritual meals that are mainly intended for the most part for the Anointed, kinda like when JWN allows you to read the contents of this blog, ask your questions, and make your statements, but on a short…VERY short leash. How do “Boreans” react to enlightenment? As refreshment? Or discomfort?
JWN
Daily Text
Saturday, November 7, 2009
Keep watching the ministry which you
accepted in the Lord, that you fulfill it.—Col. 4:17
Alright…..this is how the order of events play out as far as I can see and everything fits! I welcome any help or comments….
the conclusion I have drawn “seems” to be that this “invisible” sealing takes place “unknown” to us and then the next order of events is the release of four winds.
How soon after… who knows but the result will be the Great Tribulation and so starts Phase 1.
Phase 2…. (saved for another discussion)
then in the 3rd phase when the attack of Gog of Magog has begun (compliments of King of the North) and before they can touch the “tents of Judah”… in the twinkling of an eye, the remaining ones of Christ’s bride will be taken up and “caught away” in the same “clouds” that Jesus comes with to begin the Battle of Armageddon and that “may” be how they are able to participate in the battle.
Notice the scriptural support for my conclusions…….
(1 Corinthians 15:50-57)However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not (all) (fall asleep) [in death], but we shall all be (changed,) 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.
(2 Thessalonians 1:9-10)
These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 (at the time) he comes to be glorified (in connection with his holy ones).
Here is where the interception in the clouds comes in.
(1 Thess. 4:17) Afterward (we the living) who are (surviving) will, together with them, be caught away in (clouds) to (meet the Lord in the air); and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.
Matt.is the reference scripture for the word “clouds” in the above script.
(Matthew 26:64) Jesus said to him: “You yourself said [it]. Yet I say to YOU men, From henceforth YOU will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the (clouds) of heaven.”
*** Rbi8 p. 1578 5D
The Releasing to Be With Christ ***
In no way is the apostle here saying that immediately at his death he would be changed into a spirit to be with Christ forever. Such getting to be with Christ the Lord will first be possible at Christ’s return, when the dead in Christ will rise first, according to the apostle’s own inspired statement in 1Th 4:15-17. It is to this return of Christ and the apostle’s releasing to be always with the Lord that Paul refers in Php 1:23. He says there that two things are immediately possible for him, namely, (1) to live on in the flesh and (2) to die. Because of the circumstances to be considered, he expressed himself as being under pressure from these two things, not making known which thing he would select. Then he presents a third thing, which he really desires. There is no question about his desire for this thing as preferable, namely, “the releasing,” for it means his being with Christ.
Therefore, the expression to a‧na‧ly′sai, “the releasing,” cannot be applied to the apostle’s death as a human creature and his departing from this life. It must refer to the events at the time of Christ’s return and presence (see App 5B) and the rising of all those dead in Christ to be with him forever.
I got chilllllllls…they’re mul-ti-plyin’….
Well you better shape up…..
hehehe….couldn’t resist.
Hehehe! Sorry, I hope I’m not makin’ ya sick! Ya better go and check the flu symptoms on the healthy page, just to be sure! :)
What I cannot understand is WHY Brother Losch late in 2008 says in his talk that these things take place in Phase 2 of the Great Tribulation, when the literature, as stated, says otherwise:
Phase 1 — the destruction of false religion
Phase 2 — the celestial phenomena, the sign of the son of man in heaven, and the final sealing of the Anointed Ones.
(and in that order!)
Then, after the sealing of the anointed, the four winds let loose on the earth. Is it possible that the understanding is being changed from the four winds of ‘the great tribulation’ destruction to the four winds of ‘Armageddon’ destruction? Is that a possibility, is that what he was thinking, or am I dreaming? That’s the only way that I can see his talk fitting in. Sorry. LOL
How could it?
The “sealing” triggers the great trib…phase one
Well, what can we say? Losch’s talk is messed up???
p.s. I’m listening to Robin’s talk now. :)
I don’t feel good. :(
Good-night!
Actually the talk is dated at the beginning of 2008
“Lecture by Gerrit Losch of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, given in Hawaii on January 27, 2008.”
My thoughts are these Sandra C. :
Where in the scriptures do we get the order of events for the sealing?
(Revelation 7:3) saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”
(Revelation 9:4)Adds:
And they were told to harm no vegetation of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree, but (only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads).
when does “the harming of men” take place?
My thoughts are at Armageddon.
Ezekiel 9:5 And to these [others] he said in my ears: “Pass through the city after him and strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. 6 Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women YOU should kill off—to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near….
(Matthew 24:31) And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.
This account doesn’t mention sealing only gathering. Could the scripts. in revelation perhaps be talking about the actual sealing and the other in Matthew perhaps be talking about their actually being gathered and ascending to heaven with Jesus right before Armageddon?
Notice what Joel 3:1,2 says and the timing of the two events:
“For, look! in (those days) and (in that time), when I shall (bring back) the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also (collect together all the nations)(armageddon) and bring them down to the low plain of Je‧hosh′a‧phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations;….
Notice this referenced scripture for
“in that time”.
It refers you to…..
(Ezekiel 38:14) “Therefore prophesy, O son of man, and you must say to Gog, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Will it not be in that day when my people Israel are dwelling in security that you will know [it]?
And notice the same time frame again in Joel 3:11,12:
11 Lend YOUR aid and come, all YOU nations round about, and collect yourselves together.’”
To that place, O Jehovah, bring your powerful ones down.
12 “Let the nations be aroused and come up to the low plain of Je‧hosh′a‧phat; for there I shall sit in order to judge all the nations round about.
A lot to take in huh?
Those are just my thoughts, they seem to fit but who knows. :)
Thanks, Robin. HOWEVER,
YOU SAID: “Actually the talk is dated at the beginning of 2008
“Lecture by Gerrit Losch of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, given in Hawaii on January 27, 2008.”
I SAY: (and I feel like I’ve said this a thousand times already!) — here’s my comment from the talk’s page on this site —
SANDRA C
October 2, 2009 at 2:35 pm | #20
“By the way, I just noticed that the talk I have on CD is not exactly the same talk as the one you have for download here. This one here was given in Hawaii in January of 2008. The one I have was given in Australia in 2009. That is why the talk I have contains a little extra information, because it is more recent.”
YES, ROBIN, IT IS MORE RECENT AND IT IS DIFFERENT. SO, DO YOU SEE WHERE I AM COMING FROM? NEVERTHELESS, I WILL ACCEPT YOUR EXPLANATION. THANKS. :)
Even if one does not subscribe to Robin’s entire time line,
there is nothing anyone can say to change Rev. 7:1-4—
No part, or phase of these winds will blow, until all the remaining ones on earth receive their seal.
The burden of proof would lie on those saying otherwise.
JWN
Thank you, JWN! :)
What’s up, Robin? There seems to be a contradiction here … what do you think? Please clarify, if you have time. :)
Above, you said this:
[(Revelation 7:3) saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”
(Revelation 9:4)Adds:
And they were told to harm no vegetation of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree, but (only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads).
When does “the harming of men” take place? My thoughts are at Armageddon.]
However, earlier, you said this:
[“The final sealing takes place before the outbreak of the Great Tribulation (unseen to human eyes), THEN the four winds of destruction will be released ..."]
And then you said:
[“Further, when the winds are unleashed, it is Jesus who leads the heavenly armies in (executing judgment) on the nations. (Revelation 19:11-16) Logically, then, Jesus would be the one to command that (destruction of Satan’s earthly organization) (NOT ARMAGEDDON) be held back until God’s slaves are sealed.”]
So, did you make a mistake here, Robin? Does this seem like a contradiction to you?
I’m sure you’ll know how to fix it. :)
Love, Sandra C
Dear Sandra C.,
I make a lot of mistakes and will continue to do so in this system of things, however, I’m really not sure what you see as a contradiction? This is a quote from the Revelation book on rev. 7:2,3 not my personal comment.
*** re chap. 19 p. 115 par. 7 Sealing the Israel of God ***
Further, when the winds are unleashed, it is Jesus who leads the heavenly armies in (executing judgment) on the nations. (Revelation 19:11-16) Logically, then, Jesus would be the one to command that (destruction of Satan’s earthly organization) (NOT ARMAGEDDON) be held back until God’s slaves are sealed.
If you are referring to my added comment (Not Armageddon)….that was said because the paragraph switched from speaking about the Four Winds that were being held back, to further on in the GT when Jesus would battle at Armageddon. It made it sound as though after the Four Winds were released it would go straight into Armageddon (which it doesn’t) that marks the beginning of the GT. I apologize in assuming you would understand what I meant since we have all discussed this many, many times before. I’m sure you will forgive me :)
I will forgive you up to 77 times, my dear sister! :) I hope you have a great day!
Love you,
Sandra C
My thought on that Sandra is simply, human error and imperfection as well as giving a talk over and over and over again. I hear C.O.’s and Elders make mistakes on wording all the time….even when they know the material down to the letter. See how well the Faithful Slave has trained us? We know that to remain in unity we have to stick to one united source of info. and that is what is being dispensed to us. Think about it, not everyone has access to Bro. Losch’s talk, right?
The FDS class only vouches for what they put in print, not what any of their representatives may say, and probably for that very reason. Even he himself quotes the wt mag. but when I went back and listened to the talk “twice” on friday, I didn’t here any reference made to support that thought. By the way, the comment is made between the 40-45 min mark. I’m so glad you are such a zealous sister Sandra, keep on knocking and things will be opened to you. I hope you feel better sweetie.
Again, thanks, Robin. This is a nice comment. I will try to remember this, always. :)
However, we’ve been listening to and discussing two different talks. The info that I was discussing is NOT on the talk given in Hawaii. SO SORRY! :)
ahhhhhh…..well, there it is. Just got in from service 4 pm my time so I am just now reading your posts Sandra C. Hope you are feeling better today…
Robin,
Love your enquiring mind. The scriptures you quoted above refer only to the anointed,(the dead in Christ will rise first), not the other sheep. Don’t forget. John was writing that in regards the fall of Jerusalem as well. It would be safe to conjecture that John believed he would not see the destruction of Jerusalem either.
Hello Borean (love your name)!
Nice to meet you!
Appreciate your comments. :)
I cannot find the other comment made by this person re: mother earth. Just wanted to say that OBVIOUSLY this person is a Gaia Worshipper!
Borean…..Make a VALID point instead of tip toeing through the pages of this blog to sow contentions with your “not so slick” remarks and twisted innuendo’s…or have you come to “spy”?
To Borean, I do believe, if you have really read Robin’s comments above w/the quoted Scriptures, you would see that she was not saying anything contrary to the written word.
I agree, if you have a valid thought, make it. Your stating the obvious, as if Robin was stating something contrary to what we hold as true is puzzling….Robin knows the Scriptures regarding the anointed and what they mean….what do you mean?
To say that you love her inquiring mind and on a previous comment you say that we need to be searching if what we get from the slave is true, is a red flag.
We as witnesses, read the Bible frontwards and backwards, unlike others from other religions. It is the final authority in “all things.” But Jehovah has a channel that he uses, one that he has found “faithful and discreet.” This “slave class” of anointed brothers are serving Christ and his his father, Jehovah today, just as the apostles served as those “anointed” to be w/Christ.
If you think you can make us question the channel that Jehovah has found “faithful and discreet and who is dispensing spiritual food to his brothers” at the proper time, you are sadly mistaken. Read your Bible, Borean, that doesn’t happen in the time of the end. The faithful slave is not the same as the “Evil” slave, which has already been exposed, we know who that unfaithful slave is. Christendom can twist the Scriptures, but Jehovah reads hearts and intentions. All those who are truly desiring to serve him should always keep that in mind.
Apostates have no means of declaring what they believe. Therefore, the need to perpetrate themselves into a group, then hope to slyly implant doubts in the minds of the new, and weak.
Fortunately, like Karen has pointed out, Jehovah’s Witnesses are skilled purveyors of God’s Word, and can not only detect (flag) their thoughts, but also the “intentions of their hearts.” (“For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart.”)—Hebrews 4:12
Borean must be new to this whole apostate thing, because it’s not very good at it. The question is: What’s it going to do? It failed at serving Jehovah, and is not doing Satan much service…It’s free to “copy & paste” this reply anywhere it wishes.
JWN
Thank you JWN and Karen for handling this “impostor”
Thanks Karen and JWN for coming to my defense. It was after 1 am when I read his post and I didn’t have much brain power left after putting in a 7 hour day in the ministry. Karen….what a beautiful defense for the faith! Satan’s anger is growing and attacks like “these” are what the demons most always throw my way and that is why it is so important for all of us to become full grown as christian’s. The wicked one cannot pit us against one another if WE DO NOT let him. As JWN made reference to, the new and the weak are the most vulnerable to their tactics and I’m sure my comment may have initially surprised some of them that read this post. However, they can be very grateful that they were privileged to witness in action the proper way to handle such individuals (in and out of the congregation)and to always remain loyal and properly defend our true brothers and sisters. It takes years of use and applying what we learn so as not to be easily misled.Knowledge alone will not cut it. Jesus put it so beautifully…
“Most truly I say to YOU, I am the door of the sheep.All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage. The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy…. John 10:7-10
Much love to you both, Robin
JWN said exactly what the target is for these apostates.
I thankyou for your kind words, Robin and Mark….but Robin, at 1 am in the morning, you found words to let him know what you thought…as for your last comments, you said it as how you normally do, beautifully.
This is what is so wonderful about God’s people, we love our God, Jehovah, we love our brotherhood, and we are very protective of them both.
Satan wants so badly to devour us, as a lion would his prey. As long as we all remain faithful, Jehovah’s spirit will continue to give us all we need to resist such ones. We thankyou, Jehovah. your sister in faith, Karen :)
Destroyed after they gather for an all out attack against Jehovah’s people. Babylon the Great will be destroyed per UN given power for one hour(probably a short period of time-not long-great tribulation comes after fall of Bablylon or just about simutatneously. Talk by Gerrit Losch will help clear up alot of questions.Great tribulation I understand is in three phases Fall of Babylon the great-wild beast =UN turn on Harlot=Babylon the Great;following scream of peace and security and then great tribulation but Jehovah’s people will still be standing;King of Athe North will rouse up and gather for attack on Jehovah’s people and that will rouse Jehovah to defend his people-great crowd will survive and be witnesses of this time.Before Armageddon all 144,000 will be with Christ. Christ with the sword will get remaining enemies with the sword those that recieve the mark of the wild beast. Then Satan and demons will be abyssed-for a thousand years-preparing earth and resurrection and be brought up to perfection-Satan then will be let loose for a little while and we will be like Adam and Eve and be tested-the Bible fortells numbering like the sand of the sea–alot will prove unfaithful but all will have chance to prove faithfulness. Then we have chance at at eternal life like the 144,000 but on earth.There is alot of work ahead of us. Did this help any if not maybe try rephrasing your question.
Sandra C….
you stated: “According to Losch, some of the Anointed (this generation) are alive in that Interval of time, after the destruction of Babylon the Great, and they “SEE” Armageddon coming. (Brother Losch also says that “the Final Sealing and Identification of the Anointed Ones happens also in this Interval of time.) After they are ‘gathered together and collected,’ the four winds will be let loose on the earth.”
You must be getting confused on WHEN the final sealing takes place. The final sealing takes place before the outbreak of the Great Tribulation (unseen to human eyes), THEN the four winds of destruction will be released……I love Bro. Losch too, but we have to stick to what is in print…..I think you are confusing his words, this is not an easy prophecy to get straight in our heads. Notice the comment below:
*** w07 1/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
When “the four winds” are released, the result will be “the great tribulation,” the destruction of false religion and the rest of this wicked world. (Revelation 7:14) Ok absorb that info, now continue….
“The slaves of our God” are Christ’s anointed brothers on earth. (1 Peter 2:9, 16) Hence, this prophecy indicates that the sealing of Christ’s brothers (will have been completed when the great tribulation breaks out.)
*** re chap. 19 p. 115 par. 7 Sealing the Israel of God ***
Further, when the winds are unleashed, it is Jesus who leads the heavenly armies in (executing judgment) on the nations. (Revelation 19:11-16) Logically, then, Jesus would be the one to command that (destruction of Satan’s earthly organization) (NOT ARMAGEDDON) be held back until God’s slaves are sealed.
*** re chap. 19 p. 116 par. 9 Sealing the Israel of God ***
Evidently, when the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few will still be alive in the flesh. (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 19:7) The entire membership will be complete!—Romans 11:25, 26.
I think everyone is associating the word DESTRUCTION only with Armageddon. What about the DESTRUCTION of False Religion…..that doesn’t mean supernatural forces come and individually strike everyone in Babylon the Great does it? No! Executing judgment is more than being physically destroyed. Step back and reeeeaaaad the words.
Okay, Robin … I have been sorta distracted these past couple of days … not thinking very clearly in many ways. However, I am still confused here. You are right in assuming that I was associating “the four winds let loose” with Armageddon. And the reason for this was because of something Losch said: “… the final sealing and identification of the Anointed ones … happens in that Interval 2.” He says that ‘this generation’ of Anointed Ones is alive in Interval 2, so I was wondering, How (if the sealing means their death) can they be alive in the Interval (Phase 2) and “see all these things” and “not pass away” UNTIL ALL THESE THINGS OCCUR, if they DIE before the start of the Great Tribulation, before PHASE 1? I guess the “sealing” means something other than ‘death/resurrection to heavenly life.’
You said: “The final sealing takes place before the outbreak of the Great Tribulation (unseen to human eyes),” wheras Losch said, “the final sealing and identification of the Anointed ones … happens in that Interval 2.” Who is right? I am not blinded by my “love” for Brother Losch, Robin. Rather, there is a big discrepancy here. I’ll accept what the w07 1/1 p. 30 says about this, but you must know that it renders Losch’s explanation regarding “this generation” NUGATORY! (shrug)
On second thought, the understanding regarding ‘this generation’ can still hold. It is only Losch’s comment with regard to the TIMING of the final sealing that is in question.
Also, as re chap. 19 p. 116 par. 9 (Sealing the Israel of God) points out, ‘when the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few will still be alive in the flesh.’ So it is not referring to their death/resurrection. It must just mean that “the entire membership will be complete!”
Sandra C……their being sealed in finality DOES NOT mean their death. Where are you reading that?
*** w07 4/15 p. 19 Do You Remember? ***
• What sealing is referred to at Revelation 7:3?
When God anoints Christians with holy spirit, these are initially sealed. But Revelation 7:3 refers to a final sealing, when such anointed ones are confirmed as having fully demonstrated their loyalty.—1/1, pages 30-1.
It doesn’t say their final sealing is at their death.
*** re chap. 38 p. 277 par. 16 Praise Jah for His Judgments! ***
The apostle’s sealing appears to have been complete, even though he was still in the flesh and would yet face martyrdom.
(so there is the support for that)
Similarly, the time must come when all remaining ones on earth of the 144,000 will have been sealed individually as belonging to Jehovah.
This will be when the Lamb’s wife will have fully prepared herself—the great majority of the 144,000 having already received their heavenly reward and those still on earth having been finally approved and sealed as faithful ones.
(no mention of death)
Calm down, Robin … calm down! Please see my ‘reply’ above. I already conceded that point. :) :) :)
yer so conceded
LOL If I know you, you think I am so conceited! hehehe!
Sorry….I didnt see your comment posted before I sent mine. Did I sound hyper…
I wasn’t? :)
Again, in the “Revelation” book, pages 276, 277 p.15-17 states: “So now, after almost 2,000 years, all 144,000 of the bride class have made themselves ready. But at what point of time may it be said that “the Lamb’s wife has prepared herself? Progressively, from Pentecost 33 C.E. on, believing anointed ones “were sealed with the promised holy spirit,” this in view of a coming “day of releasing by ransom.” As the apostle Paul expressed it, God “has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts” (Eph.1:13;4:30;2Cor.1:22)Each anointed Christian is “called and chosen,” and he has proved himself “faithful.”–Rev. 17:14 After decades of testing, Paul himself could declare: “I have fought the fine fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not only to me, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation. (2Tim.4:7,8) The apostle’s sealing appears to have been complete, even though he was still in the flesh and would yet face martyrdom. Similarly, the time must come when all remaining ones on earth of the 144,000 will have been sealed individually as belonging to Jehovah. This will be when the Lamb’s wife will have fully prepared herself–the great majority of the 144,000 having already received their heavenly reward and those still on earth having been finally approved and sealed as faithful ones. At this point in Jehovah’s timetable, when the sealing of the 144,000 has reached completion, the angels release the four winds of the great tribulation. (Rev.7:1-3) First, judgment is executed on harlotlike Babylon the Great. The victorious Christ next moves on quickly to Armegeddon to destroy the rest of Satan’s organization on earth and, finally, to abyss Satan and his demons.(Rev.19:11-20:3)No doubt, anointed ones who survive on earth will soon enter into their heavenly reward to join their fellow members of the bride class. Then, amid a setting of universal peace, the marriage of the Lamb can take place!” —-I hope this helps, it sounds as if the anointed remanant on earth are sealed and then the four winds are released according to the “Revelation” book and that they are still on earth when the four winds are released. As it states, it is amid a setting of universal peace, that the marriage of the Lamb can take place. I remember hearing in years past that there may be some of the anointed on earth after Armegeddon, at the beginning of the new world. Does anyone else remember hearing that? I feel that it doesn’t matter the order of events in regards to the sealing and at what point the remaining ones of the remnant go to heaven, as we know what is to transpire, we’re given the understanding and the tools to “keep on the watch” by the faithful and discreet slave class and for that we should be thankful.
Karen….I vaguely remember that thought years ago and apparently the FDS decided to go elsewhere with that thought because it has not been put in print as far as I know and that thought is not a part of any recent info. But I do recall that point :)
Remember….destruction doesn’t mean Armageddon alone, the destruction begins with False Religion, remember, we have to see things from God’s view. Example:
What is a murder?
To God, a murder (manslayer) is also “one who does not love his brother. What is an Adulterer? To Jehovah, it is also one who…
(James 4:4) . . .”Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, (wants to be) a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.”
You don’t have to be a friend of the world to merit God’s disfavor….it goes beyond that, it says: “whoever WANTS to be”. The bible says that Jehovah’s thoughts are very deep…..and so they are. I pray all the time for wisdom, discernment and above all humility and holy spirit and we are encouraged to do so. I recommend that everyone do so on a daily basis in order to be be fully prepared for what lies ahead….prayer is POWERFUL and it WORKS :)
I agree w/your comments, Robin. I know the scriptures and thoughts you’ve expressed to be true. I was just asking if anyone remembers the thought of some small number coming through to the beginning of the new world. As to it not being part of any recent info., there has not been any info. for or against that idea as far as I have seen. So, I don’t think we know for sure. Have you read anything that says that was a mistaken idea or a statement that all anointed will be in heaven before the end of this system of things? For me, it is not something I’m overly curious about. As I stated above, it doesn’t matter to me as to when all the anointed are sealed and at what point they all go to heaven and complete the bride of Christ. I just know it will happen, because I have faith in God’s Word and it tells us that at some point, the anointed will join their brothers in heaven to be co-rulers w/Christ Jesus of the kingdom. What we have been given by Jehovah and his Son through the FDS class is what we need to get through these coming “last days.” As to prayer, I pray all the time also, Robin and have felt Jehovah’s directing me in the way that I should walk. I would not be where I am today w/out my prayers for his holy spirit, daily, I know that. When I came into the truth, I was weak, I let fear of man control me(fear of displeasing my husband). He made it difficult in the early years. Today it has been better. But I realized that I OWED Jehovah everything and it was time to put him first in my life. I became a pioneer in April, something I used to think I would never be able to do.But I prayed daily that I could move forward and pioneer. Today, I know that w/Jehovah, all things are possible. I’m happier than I’ve ever been in my life and again, I have Jehovah to thank for that. Yes Robin, prayer is powerful and it works. :)
W 90, 8/15 pp30-31;
Questions From Readers: Will some anointed Christians survive the “great tribulation” to live on earth in the new world before being taken to heaven?
The answer given:”Pointedlythe bible does not say.
Christians have long been interested in the privilege that God might extend to them.(Act1:6)That has especially been true in our time since the Kingdom was established(Matt.24:3,24,34) With the end of the wicked system to come in their time, Christians have wondered whether some spirit-anointed ones might live through “the war of the great day of God” and serve on earth for a time before receiving their heavenly reward.(Rev.16:14)The Bible does not say that this will occur, yet certain patterns and prophecies have been taken to indicate that it might. Rather than be dogmatic, we can watch to see how God will handle things.”
I encourage you to look up the info. and read the whole thing. It is too long to copy here. But, it goes on to mention several Biblical events that have parallels later on among God’s people. It also notes that “the presentation in Revelation is not in strict sequential order.” It finishes by saying that some of the remnant may or may not live into the new world. “Though we cannot and should not be dogmatic about particulars, we can eagerly look forward to what will occur.” And to that, I think we all can agree. :)
Nice digging Karen!
Thank you, I certainly will read the article.
love,your sister robin :)
You’re welcome, Robin, You and Sandra C are great diggers, I thought I should step up to the question I put out there. Keep up the good work Robin
Karen….you are indeed an inspiration for sister’s with unbelieving mates and now you are pioneering! That’s wonderful, I too had an unbelieving mate for 25 yrs, now it’s just me and my child who has now entered their teens in the last few years. It’s amazing, I never thought this would be my life in the days leading up to the great tribulation and yet here I am . . .
“But Jehovah was with me like a terrible mighty one.. . .
(Jeremiah 20:11)
and although this is where I am… I am not afraid. I have been able to start aux pioneering in 2007 for 2 yrs and now I am in my 2nd year reg.pioneering. To quote you:
“I’m happier than I’ve ever been in my life and again, I have Jehovah to thank for that.”
Much love to you Karen….your sister in the faith, Robin
Thankyou Robin, for those very kind words. The more I get to know the sisters here, the more I see how much we have in common. There were many times that I thought that my marriage was not going to make it, but we are still together after 27 years of marriage. My youngest is 23 and in college. I have had other sadnesses in my life and sometimes, they got the better of me. But not anymore. It was my realization that I was not giving back to Jehovah what I owed him. That was a turning point for me. I too, started by aux. pioneering 3 or 4 times a year, to reg. aux. and now to full-time pioneer. If we put Jehovah first in our life(as we all should),nothing is impossible for us.Jehovah is “opening his hand and satisfying the desire of every living thing.” Ps.145:16 Also, your sister in faith, Karen
Thank you Dave, for posting the text.
Daily Text
Friday, November 6
You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials.—Luke 22:28.
“we will have anointed Christians among us… until the destruction of “Babylon the Great.””
“Until” expresses an ending point. The referenced Watchtower article (including paragraph 14) twice states that the Great Crowd are the ones that will survive the Great Tribulation. After the fall of Babylon the Great, the Great Tribulation will continue on for while longer, so if the anointed will only be here “until” the destruction of Babylon the Great, the anointed wont be with us on earth at Armageddon.
Hmmm.
Interesting information, don’t you think?
MORE TO COME…SOON
Yes I do think that’s interesting! Also the point about that only a Great Crowd is seen coming out of the Great Tribulation. However, it also says that they will still be on the earth as late as Gog of Magog’s attack and the king of the north’s attack:
The expression “the tents of Judah” indicates that the anointed remnant in our time are out in the open field, so to speak, not in fortified cities. There they fearlessly defend the interests of the Messianic Kingdom. Jehovah of armies will save “the tents of Judah first” because these are in the direct line of Satan’s attack. Read Zechariah 12:9. Why does Jehovah “seek to annihilate all the nations”? Because they persistently oppose the Messianic Kingdom. For harassing and persecuting God’s people, they stand condemned. Soon Satan’s earthly agents will undertake a final attack on God’s true worshippers, which will lead to the world situation described in the Bible as Har–Magedon. (Revelation 16:13-16) Responding to that assault, the Supreme Judge will defend his servants and sanctify his name among the nations.—Ezekiel 38:14-18, 22, 23.
*** w07 12/15 p. 25 par. 15 No Weapon Formed Against You Will Succeed ***
I remember when we studied that article.
Okay, Robin, so you are quoting w07 12/15, and the daily text quotes w08 1/15 — how does this jive along with Brother Losch’s talk late in 2008 (in Australia, not Hawaii, which was early in the year)?
Losch said:
— “When YOU (that is, the Anointed) see these things, know he is near at the door.” Also, “this generation” refers to the Anointed. The Anointed “see all these things” in this interval of time [the interval between the destruction of false religion and Armageddon]. What do they see? In the interval, they see / saw the destruction of all false religion, the heavenly phenomena, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and the final sealing of the Anointed ones. THESE will see all “these things” — in other words, THIS GENERATION is this group of Anointed ones who will see Armageddon coming, the ones who saw all of this take place in that interval of time — they are “the generation” that will NOT PASS AWAY until all these things occur.” —
According to Losch, some of the Anointed (this generation) are alive in that Interval of time, after the destruction of Babylon the Great, and they “SEE” Armageddon coming. Brother Losch also says that “the Final Sealing and Identification of the Anointed Ones happens also in this Interval of time. After they are ‘gathered together and collected,’ the four winds will be let loose on the earth.” SO, does this imply, then, that their sealing means they all die/resurrected to heavenly life BEFORE the destruction of Armageddon begins? It looks like it must be, if ONLY the Great Crowd are seen coming out of Armageddon! What do you think, Robin? JWN? Any comment?
No help here sweety,
I’m more confused than you are.
John saw all 24 elders in heaven. He saw all 24 fight at Armageddon. However, those days will be cut short on account of…THE CHOSEN ONES!
“…some who are Christ’s anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.” w08 02/15…
Thanks for your response. :) :) :)
In “Revelation, Its Grand Climax at Hand!,” on pg. 201, p.10,11 states: “How can the 144,000 sing “before” the elders, since the 24 elders are the 144,000 in their glorious heavenly position? Early in the Lord’s day, those “dead in union w/Christ” were resurrected as spirit creatures. Thus, faithful anointed Christians who have conquered are now in heaven, symbolically fulfilling functions comparable to those of 24 divisions of priestly elders. They are included in the vision of Jehovah’s heavenly organization. The remnant of the 144,000 still on earth are therefore singing the new song before, or in the sight of, their resurrected brothers in heaven. At this point we might also ask: Why is it that these anointed overcomers are referred to as the symbolic 24 elders as well as the 144,000? It is because Revelation views this one group from two different standpoints. The 24 elders are always shown in their ultimate position, although at present a small remnant of these is still on earth. Revelation chapter 7, however, focusses on the 144,000 as brought forth from humankind, and it stresses Jehovah’s grand purpose to seal the complete number of individual spiritual Israelites and to grant salvation to an unnumbered great crowd. Revelation chapter 14 provides a picture confirming that the complete Kingdom class of 144,000 individual overcomers will be assembled w/the Lamb on Mount Zion. The qualifications to be met in order to be numbered w/the 144,000 are also made known, as we shall now see.* The footnote states: “The situation may be compared to that of the faithful and discreet slave that gives food to the domestics at the proper time. The slave as a body is responsible for supplying the food, but the domestics, the individual members of that body, are sustained by partaking of that spiritual provision. They are the same group but described in different terms–collectively and individually.” So the 24 elders, can mean collectively, or individually, depending on the time frame mentioned, whether there are some of the 144,000, a remnant, still on earth, or afterwards, when those ones are changed, “in a twinkling of an eye,” and the full number then being at that time, in heaven.
I meant that the 24 elders in heaven represent the 144,000 collectively, though some individually are still on earth
Daily Text
Thursday, November 5,
Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, and in your book all its parts were down in writting. -Ps.139: 16
David, who penned those words, had no knowledge of cells and genes, being without even a microscope. But he correctly discerned that the development of his own body attested to advance planning. David may have had some knowledge of how embryos develop, so he could reason that each step must take place according to a preexisting design and timetable. In poetic language, he described this design as being “down in writing” in God’s “book.” Building instructions for your body are “written” in the chemical structure of your personal DNA. Every time your cells divide- to make new cells or replace old cells- your DNA passes those instructions on, thereby keeping you alive and maintaining your basic appearance. What an outstanding example of the power and wisdom of our heavenly Maker! w07 6/15 1:9-11
I’m sure we can all exclaim with David, “I am wonderfully made!” It’s easy to love Jehovah, our Creator, with all our heart, for life and always! He’s so wonderful! [Te amo con todo mi corazon, para la vida y siempre.] What an awesome creator we have!
I also love the first three verses of this Psalm. It tells of how Jehovah watches our lying down and our getting up, and how he ‘measures’ us while we sleep! That too is awesome! Someone recently mentioned this to me, and I appreciate the comment sooo much! :)
And there were Humans thinking that they were first in inventing the MRI scanner…..Glory to Jehovah!! His eyes are the first and the best MRI scanner that we will ever need.
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:) What’s up, Robin? Starting your own brain tweet? :) (hehehe!)
Well, since no one has answered yet, here goes —
ANSWER: The book of JOB … mentions the word APOSTATE seven times, and the word APOSTATE(S) one time. :)
So what now? (hehehe!)
Hahaha……you funny girl. Isn’t that interesting that of all the books in the bible it is Job that mentions the word Apostate the most…..whoaaaa, I wonder if it’s because of Satan (the foremost apostate) and the issue of universal sovereignty being raised…..subject for a new tweet? naaaaaa :)
That’s nice, Robin. I love it when you share these little bits of info with us. Thank you. Love ya!
Daily Text
Wednesday, November 4
Do not forget the doing of good and the sharing of things with others, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.- Heb. 13:16
Coming to grips with the physical changes of aging can be difficult. Nevertheless, it is possible to demonstrate godly devotion despite such changes. Barzillai the Gileadite is a fine example in this regard. At 80 years of age, he showed extraordinary hospitality to David and his army, providing them with food and lodging during Absalom’s rebellion. David offered to make Barzillai a part of his royal court. Barzillai’s response? ” I am eighty years old today…Here is your servant Chimham…. You do to him what is good in your eyes.” (2Sam.17:27-29; 19:31-40) Like Barzilllai many aged ones today display a spirit of unselfishness and generosity. They do what they can to support true worship, knowing that “with such sacrifices God is well please.” What a blessing to have loyal ones in our midst! w07 6/1 1:12, 13
It is truly a blessing to have elderly brothers and sisters in our midst sharing their comments with us here on this website, isn’t it? I love to read their encouraging comments, and I am sure Jehovah is well-pleased with their efforts, their praise and ’sacrifice of lips.’ A special ‘thank you’ to these loyal ones!
Regarding the daily text…..does anyone have any idea which book of the bible mentions the word “apostate” the most?
Daily Text
Tuesday, November 3
If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit. – Gal. 5:25