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Italy 1 | Vatican 0

Religion • Ban Cross • Vatican • Italy • Jehovah’s Witness






Vatican’s fury as court bans crucifixes in Italian classrooms
because they ‘breach religious rights of children’



JW NewsCrucifixes have been banned in Italian schools by a ruling from the European Court of Human Rights.

The decision has enraged politicians, with Italy’s foreign minister Franco Frattini saying: ‘This is a death blow for a Europe of values and rights.

‘Europe’s roots lie in its Christian identity. At a time when we’re trying to bring religions closer, the Christian religion gets whacked.

‘The government will appeal.’

The case was brought by a Finnish woman, Soile Lautsi, who is married to an Italian.

Both are atheists. She had complained that her children had to attend a school in northern Italy which had crucifixes in every room, as laid down in law as a reflection of the country’s Roman Catholic heritage.

The European court’s ruling, which will be enforced in three months, said crucifixes could disturb children who were not Christians.

It could force a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols in government-run schools.

The court rejected arguments by Italy’s government that the crucifix was a national symbol of culture, history and identity, tolerance and secularism.

And it ordered the Italian government to pay 5000 Euro moral damages to Lautsi.

The judgment said that having a crucifix in the classroom was a ‘violation of the right to parents to educate children as to their own wishes and a violation of liberty of religion of pupils’.

Italy has been in the throes of national debate on how to deal with a growing population of immigrants, mostly Muslims, and the court sentence is likely to become another battle cry for the centre-right government’s policy to restrict newcomers.

Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini said having a cross in the classroom was ‘ a symbol of our tradition.’

Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini introduced legislation in 1924 ordering all classrooms to display crucifixes. Despite several attempts to have the law overturned in recent years it has stood.

Mrs Lautsi, a Finnish national, said that she felt having a crucifix in the classroom where her children Dataico, 11, and Sami Albertin, 13, were taught was a ‘violation of their freedom’ and of ‘right to freedom of religion’.

The eight-year case centered on a State primary school in Abano Terme near Padua in northern Italy and she brought the case to Strasbourg after her local court threw it out.
Pope Benedict XVI prays underneath the Saint Damian Crucifix inside Saint Claire Basilica in Assisi, Italy in 2007. The Vatican is said to be furious about the European ruling

Pope Benedict XVI prays underneath the Saint Damian Crucifix inside Saint Claire Basilica in Assisi, Italy, in 2007. The Vatican is said to be furious at the ruling

Today in a 16-page decision the seven judges of the Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg ruled in her favor, saying: ‘The presence of the crucifix could easily be interpreted by pupils of all ages as a religious sign and they would feel that they were being educated in a school environment bearing the stamp of a given religion.

‘This could be encouraging for religious pupils, but also disturbing for pupils who practised other religions or were atheists, particularly if they belonged to religious minorities.’

The court added that secular, state-run schools must ‘observe confessional neutrality in the context of public education,’ where attendance is compulsory.

It further rejected Italian legal arguments that the crucifix was somehow a symbol that promoted pluralism.

Today a Vatican spokesman said: ‘We will look closely at the judgement before making any comment.’

However a Vatican source said: ‘This goes completely against the grain and we are furious at this decision.’

Conservative Catholic politicians were also furious with Agriculture Minister Luca Zaia of the Northern League calling it ’shameful’ and a member of PM Silvio
Berlusconi’s People of Freedom Party, Antonio Mazzocchi, saying that Europe was forgetting its Christian heritage.

Alessandra Mussolini, whose grandfather brought in the legislation, stormed: ‘This is an attempt to erase our Christian roots. They are trying to create a Europe without identity and tradition.’

Crucifixes are common in Italian public buildings despite the postwar Constitution’s separation of Church and State. In practice, with Catholicism being such a part of Italy’s cultural identity, local bodies decide whether they want crosses in schools and courthouses, and the majority of them do.

There has been outrage in the past after it emerged some Italian schools had dropped Nativity plays and Easter plays so as not offend Muslim pupils and other religions.


  1. Chibanga
    November 18, 2009 at 5:52 am | #1

    Thanks very much brothers for all your comments and encouragements, I really didn’t know about such encouragements.Iam really strengthen and happy.Always a JW for ever!

    • Karen USA OH
      November 18, 2009 at 8:01 am | #2

      Welcome Chibanga, it’s so nice to hear from you, dear brother. I love your “always a JW forever!”…I can feel your love for Jehovah…please come back and share. your sister in faith, Karen :)

  2. November 10, 2009 at 1:46 pm | #3

    So much I to want this all to be over but Lately I notice and the circuit overseer brought out The Havest is Ripe. So evan though it getting hard on me I just start seeing the need to be out there helping in the Preaching they need us now please I beg all of you not to forget theirs life are in danger there still ones out there. I think about ones that are inactive and my relative and their children they might die. It need to sink in each of our hearts that these ones need us right now be bold in a sense to start speaking to these ones again about Jehovah. We see these things happening and we need to be just like those news reporter the urgency in their voices when speaking of these things is clear to see. Make each one that we talk to personal in a sense think of them as someone you truly love and want to see in Paradise they will feel it in your voice that you really care for them and they get the sense that nows is the time to change.

    • Robin
      November 10, 2009 at 8:02 pm | #4

      Hi Becky…..Jehovah is doing marvelous things! PRAY for inactive ones, pray for your relatives. The fact that we had a part on our convention about speaking to our relatives and HOW to actually do it, to me this show’s that Jehovah see’s much potential in this area. It also show’s how we ourselves can sabotage their acceptance of the truth by the way we treat our family members. Do you remember the example about the brother and a family member who called for a listening ear? Instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to witness, his lack of compassion caused him to close a door that perhaps Jehovah had opened. The scripture holds true:
      (1 Corinthians 13) . . .”If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding [piece of] brass or a clashing cymbal……I am not profited at all”. Keep up the good work Becky, although it is stressful at times (because you have love)Jehovah will help you endure the anxieties of it all. I can relate to how you feel, I have had much anxiety over inactive ones in my area as well as family members. Perhaps you too can relate to the prophet Habakkuk when he said:

      I heard, and my belly began to be agitated; at the sound my lips quivered; rottenness began to enter into my bones; and in my situation I was agitated, that I should quietly wait for the day of distress, for [his] coming up to the people, [that] he may raid them.18 Yet, as for me, I will exult in Jehovah himself; I will be joyful in the God of my salvation. 19 Jehovah the Sovereign Lord is my vital energy; and he will make my feet like those of the hinds, and upon my high places he will cause me to tread.” (Habakkuk 3:16, 18,19)

  3. mark m.
    November 9, 2009 at 1:47 pm | #5

    Amalia :I love all the comments on this web site. It is so refreshing to be able to hear what the thoughts of brothers and sisters all over are thinking about the news items posted. May Jehovah keep blessing all of you with peace. It is evident that the world will soon be without any. How awesome it will be as we sit and watch the end of “BABS”. (I love that name!) Regarding the November 1, 2009 WT: What reactions have any of you had in placing this issue? When I went out on Saturday all I got to do was work with others on their RVs.

    I placed all mmy entire monthly set on the 1st of November. The people I placed them with, seem so hungry for the truth.
    I can’t wait to see the harder messages, which is soo to come.

    • Tom
      November 10, 2009 at 11:07 am | #6

      I’m speculating to my friends that the harder messages will come in 2010 or 2011. I wonder what Kingdom News #38 will look like?

      • JWN
        November 10, 2009 at 11:11 am | #7

        LIKE THIS>>>
        .

        • Karen
          November 10, 2009 at 11:41 am | #8

          So, are we ready to deliver that message? Let’s pray for Jehovah’s holy spirit everyday, for the strength we will need and be preparing, mentally, for such a message, so that we will not “shrink back” from delivering it, when the time comes to do so.

  4. Amalia
    November 9, 2009 at 11:04 am | #9

    I love all the comments on this web site. It is so refreshing to be able to hear what the thoughts of brothers and sisters all over are thinking about the news items posted. May Jehovah keep blessing all of you with peace. It is evident that the world will soon be without any. How awesome it will be as we sit and watch the end of “BABS”. (I love that name!) Regarding the November 1, 2009 WT: What reactions have any of you had in placing this issue? When I went out on Saturday all I got to do was work with others on their RVs.

  5. mark m.
    November 8, 2009 at 3:34 pm | #10

    Robin :Tom….according to this article, it would have MAJOR implications…..thanks for the heads up and buckle your seat belts :)
    Obama’s new world order
    Redistributionist revolution vs. sovereignty
    By Jeffrey T. Kuhner
    President Obama is on a path toward establishing a one-world government. This is the warning of Christopher Monckton, a former major policy adviser to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.
    In December, world leaders will descend upon Copenhagen to sign a United Nations climate change treaty that will succeed the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which is aimed at reducing greenhouse gases and set to expire in 2012. An agreement has been drafted.
    The goal of the Copenhagen treaty is to erect an international cap-and-trade regime to curb carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions, said to be responsible for man-made global warming. Recently, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown warned of a “climate catastrophe” – a rising wave of floods, droughts and shrinking food crops – unless the treaty is signed. Mr. Brown even said global warming would inflict more damage than both world wars and the Great Depression combined; the world has only several weeks to save itself from impending doom.
    The United States would lose control over its environmental policy. Also, it would sign its death warrant as a functioning democracy, enabling the United Nations to administer a fledgling world government possessing the authority to regulate and tax the American economy. The treaty is a sword aimed at the heart of our national sovereignty.
    If Mr. Obama signs the Copenhagen treaty, he “will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your prosperity away forever,” Mr. Monckton recently told an audience in Minnesota. “I read that treaty and what it says is this:
    that a world government is going to be created.”
    Yet the U.S. Senate can avoid this disastrous course. A supermajority of 67 votes is required to ratify the treaty. In 1997, the Senate in a 95-0 vote rejected the Kyoto Protocol, thereby preventing the United States from joining. Mr. Monckton believes that, in order to avoid defeat, Mr. Obama will try to circumvent the ratification process. If he does, he will spark a political revolt that will make the Tea Party protests look tame by comparison.
    Mr. Obama has vowed to create a “green economy” based on “green-collar jobs” and “a green New Deal.” The Copenhagen treaty would enable him to accomplish his revolutionary ambitions. It would mark his Cultural Revolution – the permanent transformation of America.
    hTTp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/25/obamas-new-world-order/

    If you have not been to this years’ district convention stop reading…….
    The last talk on the Sunday program a resolution was adopted. It stated that WE as witnesses of Jehovah are in favor of Jehovah’s rule over the present day world governments. A copy is going to be sent to each world government. Now why mention this, you might ask.
    Simply, this will not sit well with mr.obama’s plans for a united one world government. Things are going to happen so fast, hold on, and please remain in Jehovah’s love.

    • Robin
      November 8, 2009 at 5:51 pm | #11

      That’s interesting Mark…..you said that “A copy is going to be sent to each world government” of the resolution that was adopted. I started visualizing the reactions of some of the govts. to this resolution…..I wonder if in the future if such a “report” would be a factor in infuriating the King of the North?…..Just a thought :)

      • mark m.
        November 8, 2009 at 8:39 pm | #12

        The district conventions offically end 2009/2010, so this will be something to very closely.

        Here you have these religious leaders preaching about climate change and unversal healthcare, and “we” as witnesses of Jehovah are standing up and saying….”We prefer Jehovah’s rule over yours”(world’s current government)

        Not only will this humilate the so called leaders but it will insense them, thinking among themselves “how dare we.”

        Everone please remain in Jehovah’s love.

        • Karen
          November 9, 2009 at 5:57 am | #13

          Yes, and it shows that they have chosen man’s rule, though as supposed “Christians” they should be urging faith in God’s Kingdom. No, only Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing that. Rain or shine, sleet or snow, this “good news of the kingdom” is being preached in all the world.(Matt. 24:14) It is a witness to the nations that all their “plans” are like a striving after the wind. They will be proven futile.

        • tom
          November 9, 2009 at 11:50 am | #14

          Thanks for the reminder of the resolution. It seems like within a couple of years, we will be heading for a collision

          I told my brother that no matter what Oboma and the UN do. We are still going to preach their destruction and they can’t stop us.

          • mark m.
            November 9, 2009 at 2:03 pm | #15

            We may not even have that long to wait.

        • SANDRA C
          November 10, 2009 at 4:50 am | #16

          Good-morning, Brother Mark!
          I’m not sure whether I am reading you correctly or not, so could you please explain for me this comment: “The district conventions offically end 2009/2010″? Are you saying that they have now officially ended for THIS YEAR? (Therefore, the copies will soon be sent) Or, are you saying that they officially end this year for good? I assume it is the former? :) Thanks. :)

          • mark m.
            November 10, 2009 at 6:36 am | #17

            I do apologize, the Keep on the Watch district will carry into 2010. Once the last convention is held, the resolution letters will be sent to every world leaders, governments.

            • SANDRA C
              November 10, 2009 at 7:05 am | #18

              Yes, that’s what I figured you meant … thanks, Mark! :)

              • mark m.
                November 10, 2009 at 9:53 am | #19

                no problem, I should have been clear on that point.

            • Karen
              November 10, 2009 at 7:17 am | #20

              That is good news, indeed, Mark….we will “stay tuned.”

              • mark m.
                November 10, 2009 at 9:55 am | #21

                2010 is going to be an exciting time.

                • Karen
                  November 10, 2009 at 10:33 am | #22

                  I’m excited ALREADY, Mark!! ;)

            • Tiago
              November 10, 2009 at 7:36 am | #23

              In which talk has this resolution been read? The last one in sunday?

              • mark m.
                November 10, 2009 at 9:51 am | #24

                Yes, the concluding talk.

    • SANDRA C
      November 9, 2009 at 12:29 pm | #25

      Thank you so much for this reminder, Brother Mark :) I didn’t take any notes on the Sunday afternoon program, and quite frankly I had forgotten about this. Now, do you see how we NEED you? We do; we do! Thank you! :)

  6. Robin
    November 8, 2009 at 12:34 pm | #26

    Tom….according to this article, it would have MAJOR implications…..thanks for the heads up and buckle your seat belts :)

    Obama’s new world order

    Redistributionist revolution vs. sovereignty

    By Jeffrey T. Kuhner

    President Obama is on a path toward establishing a one-world government. This is the warning of Christopher Monckton, a former major policy adviser to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

    In December, world leaders will descend upon Copenhagen to sign a United Nations climate change treaty that will succeed the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which is aimed at reducing greenhouse gases and set to expire in 2012. An agreement has been drafted.

    The goal of the Copenhagen treaty is to erect an international cap-and-trade regime to curb carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions, said to be responsible for man-made global warming. Recently, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown warned of a “climate catastrophe” – a rising wave of floods, droughts and shrinking food crops – unless the treaty is signed. Mr. Brown even said global warming would inflict more damage than both world wars and the Great Depression combined; the world has only several weeks to save itself from impending doom.

    The United States would lose control over its environmental policy. Also, it would sign its death warrant as a functioning democracy, enabling the United Nations to administer a fledgling world government possessing the authority to regulate and tax the American economy. The treaty is a sword aimed at the heart of our national sovereignty.

    If Mr. Obama signs the Copenhagen treaty, he “will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your prosperity away forever,” Mr. Monckton recently told an audience in Minnesota. “I read that treaty and what it says is this:

    that a world government is going to be created.”

    Yet the U.S. Senate can avoid this disastrous course. A supermajority of 67 votes is required to ratify the treaty. In 1997, the Senate in a 95-0 vote rejected the Kyoto Protocol, thereby preventing the United States from joining. Mr. Monckton believes that, in order to avoid defeat, Mr. Obama will try to circumvent the ratification process. If he does, he will spark a political revolt that will make the Tea Party protests look tame by comparison.

    Mr. Obama has vowed to create a “green economy” based on “green-collar jobs” and “a green New Deal.” The Copenhagen treaty would enable him to accomplish his revolutionary ambitions. It would mark his Cultural Revolution – the permanent transformation of America.

    hTTp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/25/obamas-new-world-order/

    • JWN
      November 8, 2009 at 1:34 pm | #27

      Just a post script:

      The U.S. has it set up that any U.N. treaty is not binding unless signed by the president, PLUS agreed to by 2/3 vote (67/100) in the Senate—[Article II of the U.S. Constitution states that the President "shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties."]
      Under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, however, any treaty signed by recognized “representatives of a state”, and not President himself, IS considered binding.

      That being said, it’s expected that President Obama/or Ambassador Rice will sign this, and because it’s unfinished, and open-ended…would allow developing countries to amend it over U.S. objections. Thus, the Administration essentially will be signing a blank check that Americans will be expected to pay.

      • SANDRA C
        November 9, 2009 at 12:37 pm | #28

        My husband (a university professor) ALWAYS watches this show/ Glenn Beck. Time and again Beck invariably discusses a coming new world order, and he usually relates some very scary associated scenarios.

        • Karen
          November 10, 2009 at 9:28 am | #29

          All the talking heads on tv w/their biased “news”….that is what journalism has sunk to. Whether the point of view is considered right, left, or centralist…the slant is the same. You need to check facts, sadly, to make sure what they are reporting are indeed facts. Does it give you a headache, Sandra C., as it does me?…very small doses is about all I can take. :)

          • SANDRA C
            November 11, 2009 at 11:10 am | #30

            I don’t listen to such commentary, Karen, unless my husband asks me to listen to a specific point. Even then, I make sure that I point out to him how the scenario fits or doesn’t fit with our Christian view of unfolding events. (I never miss a chance to give a witness!) I hope things are well with you, Sister!

            • Karen
              November 11, 2009 at 2:03 pm | #31

              Good for you Sandra C., I use to be afraid of “ruffling” my husband’s feathers, but not anymore. Though, I measure my words, I too, realize my responsiblity to speak the truth to my husband.
              I’m well, Sandra, I had alot of letter-writing to do today…our not-at-homes and I send the brochure, “When Someone You Love Dies,” along w/ a letter to those who have lost loved-ones in death in our territory. This has been very rewarding, as you get people who call or write to say thankyou. I do have a bible study from sending the brochure. Jehovah is helping us to use all avenues in giving a thorough witness. Hope you are well also, Sandra. :) :)

              • SANDRA C
                November 11, 2009 at 2:36 pm | #32

                Hey, I’m in the same boat as you today … planned and prepared for the ministry this morning, but due to sickness my service partner and I had to cancel plans. So, I’ve been home writing letters myself … witnessing by letter is something that I love doing, and something that I’ve done a lot of. I’ve had several Bible studies through letter writing. Just started a Bible study over the telephone on the initial phone call, in addition to one at a door on the initial call. :) So, yes, there are lots of different ways to witness, as we’ve been learning recently at our service meetings. :)
                Keep up the good work, Karen! I love reading your comments.

                • Karen
                  November 11, 2009 at 5:44 pm | #33

                  Hope you’re feeling better soon, Sandra.I hope to be like you and get more studies through letter-writing. People are listenig, let’s keep preaching, Sandra :)

  7. November 8, 2009 at 10:48 am | #34

    TOM many people believe that the U.N is using the climate change issue as a reson to push its agenda on the world. Many scintist disagree with the whole global warming issue. Many world leader are openly admiting that they need a One World Goverment so if this might be how there going to acheive it. Is unclear just remain watchful. Never do these ones in higher power ever tell us there real goal they always us things to distract the people in order to push what they want on them. Lately you notice how everthing is around the everionment going green many religious leader are to pushing this one their followers. While these religious leader are helping this agenda and trying to get their follower to save the plant by joining this everormental movement we see the FDS and the Other Sheep main Focus is to Preach the Good New. Because Gods Kingdom is the only answer no man made goverment or enviormental project can do what his Kingdom can do for mankind.

  8. mark m.
    November 8, 2009 at 10:22 am | #35

    tom :All
    I know this is off topic; but can anyone tell me why many is so up tight about the United Nations Climate Change conferance meeting in Demark on December 7-18, 2009?

    Tom, one secular newspaper writer describe the climate change movement as a “new religion”, something people can believe in. Just another one of satan’s ditraction.

  9. tom
    November 8, 2009 at 8:09 am | #36

    All

    I know this is off topic; but can anyone tell me why many is so up tight about the United Nations Climate Change conferance meeting in Demark on December 7-18, 2009?

  10. Amalia
    November 7, 2009 at 3:46 pm | #37

    Did you notice that nowhere in the news report was there any mention of how the Italian people are feeling about this decision? No mention of any interviews with anyone and their reaction either pro or con. So it also goes when in Revelation it tells of the reaction of the government and the merchants when BG is destroyed…no mention of the people being upset.

    • Tiago
      November 8, 2009 at 12:37 am | #38

      awesome point!

  11. November 7, 2009 at 2:55 pm | #39

    Just to able to witness this is a blessing in Itself. What a Loving God we have he warned us in advance that this would happen. I hope many other will see this and other evidance and get out of False Religion before this Ship is completly under water.

  12. SANDRA C
    November 6, 2009 at 8:25 am | #40

    Thank you for posting this, JWN. We do appreciate your GOOD work! :)

  13. Sandra 123
    November 6, 2009 at 6:38 am | #41

    Wow!!! Government will tire just luke Pax Romana era. They will be back sudden destruction. No turning back!!! Wonder if thus us a way Jehovah uses to relieve oppression to get the good news to others before Babs is completely destroyed.

    • tom
      November 6, 2009 at 10:44 am | #42

      Sandrea

      Look at the situation at Fort Hood. It is basically religious reasons. The world are are spending trillions while they are broke to prevent religious terrorism. When are they going to wake up and smell the coffee? Religious fanatics are the main problem in this century.

  14. eddie
    November 5, 2009 at 5:12 pm | #43

    What happened to the church building in the picture – it’s empty! Did they ran out of funds or just ran out of members?

  15. Elsie Kirk
    November 5, 2009 at 2:42 pm | #44

    Isn’t it exciting its getting nearer and nearer when i feel down because of this horrible wicked world.
    I think of the good news posted on this page and my heart rejoices and my spirit lifts.

    Revelation 24: …no more mourning nor outcry or pain, my beloved 10 year old cat has been hit by a car i hope he survives…

    thank you so much J W N
    for your posts much agape love to you x ((((( Hugs )))))

    • Robin
      November 5, 2009 at 7:53 pm | #45

      I’m so sorry Elsie….I hate it when animals are victims of this system…..I hope he survives too!

  16. tom
    November 5, 2009 at 11:33 am | #46

    All
    You got expect this in the last days. Sometimes the courts might favorite some religion beliefs to certian extent, however we can see that Babylon the Great is getting smaked now. I wonder what is next?

    JWN
    Thanks for posting this interesting article.

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